| Nick | Message |
|---|
--> | You are now talking on #pingus |
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<Nehal> | grumbel: does pingus work under win32? |
<grumbel> | it should, but havn't tested it myself |
<Nehal> | oh |
<Nehal> | maybe ill try it |
<Zombie> | Did any if you listen to me? |
<Nehal> | i just came in |
<Zombie> | Are you Pingus Developers? |
<Nehal> | me? nope |
<Nehal> | grumbel is |
<Zombie> | whjat about Him? |
<Zombie> | hello? |
<Nehal> | grumbel is, he probably is afk right now |
<Zombie> | 'I have some ideas to make your project more successful. |
<grumbel> | yo? |
<Zombie> | I'm a student in college |
<Zombie> | and I have some ideas I'd like to shhare with you. |
<grumbel> | then go on and share :) |
<Zombie> | I think you need to work on your semantics with Pingus. |
<Zombie> | Pingus is an excellent idea |
<Zombie> | it just needs some concept level work |
<grumbel> | its the overall game design that is pretty ugly or not existant at all |
<Zombie> | I know. |
<grumbel> | Pingus is currentyl good at starting a level from command line, the in game GUI is pretty much useless at the current point |
<Zombie> | I also think its somewhat TOO Difficult. |
<Nehal> | the game is too difficult? no i didnt find it so |
<grumbel> | "the game" doesn't exist at all |
<Nehal> | maybe some of the tutorial levels can be a little easier, but other than that its ok |
<grumbel> | its an engine + a bunch of levels (some playable some not) |
<grumbel> | Zombie: are you using latest CVS? |
<Zombie> | No, I'm using whats in Mandrake's Cooker |
<grumbel> | remove that and use CVS |
<Zombie> | Well, can we talk a little about concept level semantics? |
<grumbel> | after you tried CVS |
<grumbel> | it might already contain a few things you miss. |
<Zombie> | where can I download the latest CVS? |
<grumbel> | export CVSROOT=':pserver:anonymous@dark.x.dtu.dk:/usr/local/cvsroot' |
<grumbel> | cvs logi |
<grumbel> | cvs -z3 checkout Games/Pingus |
<grumbel> | s/logi/login/ |
<Nehal> | grumbel: what compiler did u use when u last tested on win32, and when was this? |
<grumbel> | Nehal: MSVC6 |
<grumbel> | Nehal: clanlib will give you throuble with other compilers, might work with borland one's, but MSVC is the main one |
<Nehal> | ill modify clanlib to work with mingw |
<Nehal> | but one thing i hate about mingw, it is hella slow, much slower than gcc for unix, and takes a lot of memory |
<grumbel> | Zombie: have you downloaded CVS? |
<grumbel> | Zombie: more infos at http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html |
<Nehal> | libmikmod compiled and installed, now clanlib |
<Nehal> | or does hermes come first, i keep forgetting? |
<grumbel> | hermes first |
<Nehal> | crap, i need autogen |
<Nehal> | grumbel: can u send me configure for hermes? |
<grumbel> | http://pingus.seul.org/~grumbel/tmp/Hermes-1.3.2-1.tar.bz2 |
<grumbel> | contains the auto* stuff |
<Nehal> | thx |
<grumbel> | Zombie: you there? |
<Zombie> | er |
<Zombie> | Yes |
<Zombie> | Can I give some reccommendatioms? |
<Nehal> | Zombie: dont ask, just say :) |
<Zombie> | Extract Data from the original Lemmings a Freecraft did from Warcraft II |
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<grumbel> | Zombie: Pingus data looks much better than lemmings, so its pretty pointless |
<Zombie> | Not it would not bee, |
<grumbel> | beside that Pingus is not even close to being gameplay compatible with lemmings |
<grumbel> | Zombie: done the CVS checkout? |
<grumbel> | Zombie: if so, read http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html, contains now some infos on how to get a binary |
<Zombie> | I'm d/ling something else right now |
<Nehal> | hermes installed, 2 down 1 to go |
<Zombie> | but I'm more intrested in the semantics of the program as opposed to |
<Zombie> | the details as to what you have made thusfar |
<grumbel> | what do you mean by semantics in this case? |
<Zombie> | You've proven to me you have the technical know-how to build this thing |
<Zombie> | What you don't know is how to appropriately document, and nogstolgically |
<Zombie> | advertise your project |
<grumbel> | I have decided that I currently have nothing to advertise, that why its currently doesn't have much spotlight on it. |
<Zombie> | Thats part of semantics. |
<grumbel> | it already got enough of that way back, it didn't help much |
<Zombie> | Your idea has some very good merit. |
<Zombie> | and I know what its like to have a project that you really want to do (Mega Man: Black Project) fail on me for technical reasons |
<Zombie> | but you have overcome the technical barrier |
<grumbel> | pingus actually never was a project 'that I really want to do', it was more an accident. |
<Zombie> | Oh? |
<grumbel> | was more ment to be a short time project to learn a bit programming, well turned out to take a bit longer than expected and got a bit more attention than expected |
<Nehal> | dangit, configure for clanlib doesn't detect hemres |
<grumbel> | Nehal: config.log is your friend... well, at least sometimes |
<Nehal> | i just usually edit configure and erase and 'exit' :) |
<Nehal> | s/and/any |
<Zombie> | Can I give you my experiance in this? |
<Zombie> | I wanted to make a massive (At the time MS-DOS) game called Mega Man the Rise of the House of Hyperion. |
<Zombie> | I made a web page on this project |
<Zombie> | I story boarded the wwhole thing |
<Zombie> | I got voice actors |
<Zombie> | I spent months Extracting sprites from Mega Man 1-6 |
<Zombie> | I built a main data file from a Doom WAD |
<Zombie> | But because I knew nothing about coding my project failed |
<Zombie> | got that? |
<grumbel> | yep |
<Zombie> | For you I think the reverse is true. |
<Zombie> | Therefore you experiance "scope creep: |
<Nehal> | hmm, so far i had to make a modification, and im getting a lot of warnings, but clanlib seems to be compiling fine |
<grumbel> | Nehal: do you compile clanlib for X11 or DirectX? |
<Nehal> | grumbel: well WIN32 or __WIN32__ or whatever is automatically defined, so it is compiling with directx, or i would certainly get an error by now :-) |
<Nehal> | actually i know it is, cos it couldnt find d3d.h , i had to comment that line out, i have directx.h and dinput.h and all the others, i guess d3d.h isn't needed anyways |
<Nehal> | more than 100 megs swap in use :( |
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<grumbel> | hi gervase |
<gervase> | Hello! |
<grumbel> | Zombie: so what do you think I should do different? |
<Zombie> | hold on |
<Nehal> | oh crap, clanlib does not go well with mingw |
<gervase> | :Just managed to compile the latest cvs about 10 minutes ago |
<gervase> | and I keep on getting lots of "frame below zero: nan" or |
<gervase> | "frame below zero: inf" |
<gervase> | Could this be due to a bad delta being passed into Sprite::update() ? |
<grumbel> | gervase: is the frame-skip stuff |
<grumbel> | gervase: which should probally be completly rewriten |
<grumbel> | pingus doesn't behave very well on slow systems |
<grumbel> | and even on fast systems with a little CPU load it gets quite choopy |
<Nehal> | there are completely different source directories for win32/unix , it is not easy getting clanlib to work... |
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<abcdefghi> | hi when dose the mettin start? |
<grumbel> | kind of |
<abcdefghi> | well i was think about how we could make pingus better and i thought that mabey we could incorperate the old dos games in to pingus like in freecraft |
<Zombie> | back |
<Zombie> | lunch is good :) |
<grumbel> | abcdefghi: no, that would make things much worse. |
<abcdefghi> | why? |
<grumbel> | or is it just me who can't stand freecraft gfx for more than five seconds? |
<Zombie> | Good, everyone is here |
<Zombie> | hm? |
<grumbel> | beside that there is copyright throuble and resolution throuble 320x200, doesn't look that good on a 800x600 screen |
<Nehal> | grumbel: most freecraft uses use the wc2 graphics, and yes the fcmp graphics suck, they are improving though |
<Nehal> | s/uses/users |
<abcdefghi> | true well that shows hom much i think things through |
<grumbel> | Nehal: yeah, but thats kind of the problem, cause nearly everybody can use wc2, the free ones are lagging behind |
<abcdefghi> | yep |
<Nehal> | grumbel: right |
<grumbel> | and I think redoing something that is already done, is not worth doing at all, especially games. |
<abcdefghi> | is there a banner for pingus that people can put around there sites? |
<abcdefghi> | yes i guess |
<grumbel> | we have banners somewhere, but not available on the webpage at the moment. |
<abcdefghi> | well we could get them on the website and then people like my dad can put them on their sites |
<abcdefghi> | how far are we to the next relese of pingus? |
<grumbel> | as close as ever I think, its just a matter of sitting down for two weeks and get it finished |
<abcdefghi> | well that is good how much of the gui is hooked out to the servers options? |
<grumbel> | the gui is more or less working, its just a matter of striping out the stuff that is not working |
<grumbel> | like option menu and contrib-screens |
<abcdefghi> | k |
<abcdefghi> | how many of the levels are hooked out to the gui? |
<grumbel> | 15-20 |
<abcdefghi> | oh |
<abcdefghi> | what can people like me do to hook up more levels to the gui? |
<grumbel> | nothing, the next release will not have more than 15-20 levels |
<abcdefghi> | i why that few? |
<abcdefghi> | -i |
<grumbel> | because we want to start out small |
<abcdefghi> | that makes sense |
<abcdefghi> | will you beable to download the other levels if you want to? |
<grumbel> | no |
<abcdefghi> | k |
<grumbel> | well, people can always use CVS to get everything, but there won't be any public visible download button |
<abcdefghi> | true |
<Nehal> | grumbel: ever played lemmings 2? |
<abcdefghi> | no i can't find it. |
<grumbel> | Nehal: a bit, but not that much |
<grumbel> | abcdefghi: http://pingus.seul.org/development/cvs.html |
<abcdefghi> | k |
<abcdefghi> | only my win part of this box has a connection to the internet right now but i will hook up linux to the internet soon. |
<grumbel> | gervase: have seen the test apps in contrib/ ? |
<gervase> | Found it. It basically just puts a "sprite" on the screen and goes through each of the frames, if I read the code correctly. |
<grumbel> | gervase: thats the not so usefull one, the soundtest/ thing is more intersting |
<grumbel> | gervase: can be used to test pingus, not so bug free, sound system |
<abcdefghi> | what parts of pingus are working that weren't working in the last verision? |
<grumbel> | can't remember, lots of stuff |
<abcdefghi> | cool |
<abcdefghi> | is there an irc client for linux |
<Nehal> | abcdefghi: haha |
<abcdefghi> | ? |
<grumbel> | abcdefghi: tons of, from telnet, to xchat, whatever you like |
<abcdefghi> | oh so you can just login with telnet? |
<grumbel> | if you have the IRC-RFC at hand, yep |
<abcdefghi> | what is that and where can i get it? |
<Nehal> | abcdefghi: xchat, bitchx, kvirc, sirc, irssi, ircII, savirc, xirssi, the list goes on... |
<Nehal> | xchat is the best though :) |
<abcdefghi> | k |
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<gervase> | Got an error while compiling soundtest |
<grumbel> | so, anybody feeling the need to cleanup the pingus development section on the webpage? |
<grumbel> | gervase: which error? |
<gervase> | "/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lclanVorbis" |
<gervase> | Is it reqd? |
<grumbel> | remove it from the makefile |
<grumbel> | its not required for pingus, but soundtest/ doesn't have a full blown configure script |
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<abcdefghi> | how do i use xchat? |
<abcdefghi> | to connect to irc |
<grumbel> | start it and use it, I would say |
<abcdefghi> | k |
<grumbel> | xchat is a pretty straight forward clicky-app |
<abcdefghi> | k good |
<abcdefghi> | in the faq for pingus it says "A game manual along with a tutorial is planed and might be released together with the next version" is that still planed? |
<grumbel> | of course its planed, the question is if somebody is writing it |
<abcdefghi> | is anybody writing it? |
<gervase> | Is the game manual different from the web manual? |
gervase grumbel Mar 01 22:49:09 gervase grumbel Mar 01 22:49:26 <grumbel> | gervase: maybe another style sheet or so to make it look better when seperated from the webpage, but same content |
<abcdefghi> | k |
<abcdefghi> | well i gtg |
<abcdefghi> | bye |
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<gervase> | Got a problem with soundtest |
<gervase> | Ln 1: "[DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream] [Output] Initializing ClanLib-Sound" |
<gervase> | Ln 2: "[DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream] [Output] Initializing ClanLib-MikMod" |
<gervase> | [DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream] [Output] PathManager: music/music/pingus-1.it -> ../../data//music/music/pingus-1 |
<Nehal> | gg |
<gervase> | .it" |
<gervase> | Ln 4: "[DebugStream::Buffer fallback stream] [Output] PingusSoundReal: Playing music: ../../data//music/music/pingus-1.it" |
<gervase> | Ln 4: "Aborted" |
<gervase> | Sorry Ln 5: "Aborted" |
<grumbel> | you have newest CVS? |
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<grumbel> | changed the music/ prefix a bit |
<grumbel> | roadmap is now a bit updated http://pingus.seul.org/development/roadmap.html |
<gervase> | Got rid of "music/" prefix bits |
<gervase> | But now get the following errors |
<gervase> | "PathManager: music/pingus-1.it -> /music/pingus-1.it" |
<gervase> | "PingusSoundReal: Playing music: /music/pingus-1.it" |
<gervase> | "Aborted" |
<grumbel> | is your pingus current CVS? |
<grumbel> | I changed the location of the pathmanager stuff a few days ago |
<grumbel> | it was done multiple times in some places, which didn't work to well. |
<gervase> | I updated at about 20:30 today. |
<grumbel> | hm |
<grumbel> | pathfinder is doing something wrong than |
<grumbel> | gervase: is your pingus compile also current? |
<grumbel> | since the contrib/ stuff simply grabs the object files from the src/ directory without checking for a necesarry rebuild |
<grumbel> | std::string comp_path = base_path + "/" + relative_path; |
<grumbel> | if base_path is empty you get your behaviour |
<grumbel> | eik, stupid me |
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<grumbel> | fix for soundtest is in CVS |
<gervase> | Managed to get my own fix to soundtest to work, but too late! |
<gervase> | I removed one too many of the "music/" prefixes. |
<gervase> | Just wonder, is it worth making sound test be able to play music 1 to 9 and not just 1, 2, 3, 5 and 6? |
<grumbel> | doesn't really matter |
<grumbel> | was just to see if you could play multiple music tracks after another without memleak or lockups |
<grumbel> | music is working ok in this matter |
<grumbel> | but sound is not, its memleaking quite a lot |
<grumbel> | and pingus-massdestruction sounds ugly, since to many .wav's are played at the same time |
<grumbel> | you can reproduce that by right-clicking in the soundtest window |
<gervase> | Well. It's the first ever time I've ever heard any of the music! |
<gervase> | With regards to the sound, the worst thing that happens is the "FIXME" msg appears. |
<grumbel> | look at 'top' and you see its memleaking |
<gervase> | The sound pans well. |
<grumbel> | its not as worse as mem-leaking music, but still fills the memory |
<grumbel> | we need the resource manager to handle music and sound stuff |
<gervase> | When you say the top, the top of what? |
<grumbel> | currently we are just 'new'ing Clanlib sound streams and never deleting them |
<grumbel> | the programm 'top' |
<grumbel> | memleaks are good to see there when you run soundtest |
<grumbel> | even so valgrind or some real memory debuger will give you much more acurat results |
<grumbel> | btw. animtest is just meant to test sprites for there frame-per-second when they look best, isn't really a finished programm and didn't help all that much, but might come handy one time |
<gervase> | Unless I am missing something, couldn't the new statements be moved outside? |
<gervase> | You can then pass the newly created object by ptr. |
<gervase> | You then put delete in the destructor. |
<grumbel> | we need a smart_ptr wrapper class around the music stuff |
<grumbel> | sound stuff I mean |
<grumbel> | music is ok as it is, since we only allocate one music file at once and destroy it if another music gets started |
<grumbel> | sound effects could simply be allocated once at system startup |
<grumbel> | since we only have a handfull of them, then stuffed in a std::map<> and deleted at sound shutdown |
<grumbel> | so we could reuse the sound effects at least |
<gervase> | I assume that you would replace PingusSoundReal with the std::map<>, |
<gervase> | which PingusSound would search? |
<gervase> | The std::map<> would be a member of PingusSound. |
<gervase> | No need for smart_ptr then. |
<grumbel> | problem is that this still doesn't solve the problem with playing to many of the same sound at once |
<grumbel> | so a seperate class is needed |
<grumbel> | but std::map solution would be pretty simple to implement and probally enough for the first release |
<gervase> | Does the too many sounds problem only occur at Armageddon time? |
<gervase> | If only one sound is allowed to play at the same time, I think Armageddon would sound silly. |
<gervase> | I think you would only hear 2 "Oh-no"s, when in fact 50 Pingus are about to die. |
<gervase> | My ISP's auto disconnect will be kicking into action in literally 1 a minute. |
<gervase> | So, I'll bid you all farewell... |
<grumbel> | it doesn't have to be 50 sounds |
<grumbel> | but probally 5 or so |
<grumbel> | playing the same sound over and over again, results in some kind of 'echo'-like sound |
<grumbel> | which sounds completly wrong and broken |
<grumbel> | good night, going to sleep "Real Soon Now"[tm] |